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  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #10.

[There is a] difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production.

Rand says ancaps make the same mistake as “modern statists” – they don’t see this difference.

#10 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

Defensive force and security services are productive endeavors.

Retaliatory force is only part thereof, and defense involves the employment of scarce resources, thus economic principles apply. (Logan Chipkin)

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

[There is a] difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production.

Rand says ancaps make the same mistake as “modern statists” – they don’t see this difference.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #2.

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

#2 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

There exist many legal variations between states of the US, eg with regard to wiretapping laws (single-party vs two-party-consent states), yet presumably that wouldn’t lead KodoKB to conclude that federalism is bad.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #2.

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

#2 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

Since an objectivist government, by definition, cannot aggress upon its citizens, it cannot stop them from forming private arbitration services anyway. It has no way to enforce its monopoly. So an objectivist society would sooner or later turn into an ancap one anyway.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #2.

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

#2 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

Even if it’s true that people need shared, objective legal standards for a society to function, that doesn’t mean government is the only way to supply such standards. (Logan Chipkin)

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #4.

KodoKB writes:

If someone decides to make a website that only supports a certain browser, or to only allow certain encoding methods in their phonelines, while that may exclude me from their services it does not violate my rights. If someone decides that they can steal my IP [intellectual property] and they have an agency that supports this view, they are violating my rights and are being protected in doing so.

#4 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

Private protection/arbitration agencies would actually be better than the governments described in #5 (the US and Chinese government, respectively). Consider how things would be different if these governments were not extorting their citizens for money, but instead had to rely on a value proposition to earn their money – that is, if they both operated like private arbitration agencies. Then both would prefer to have shared rules around intellectual property so their customers continue to give them money.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #4.

KodoKB writes:

If someone decides to make a website that only supports a certain browser, or to only allow certain encoding methods in their phonelines, while that may exclude me from their services it does not violate my rights. If someone decides that they can steal my IP [intellectual property] and they have an agency that supports this view, they are violating my rights and are being protected in doing so.

#4 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

That sounds no worse than the current situation between the US and China, say. China protects Chinese companies violating US trademarks.

(There’s a common libertarian saying about how criticisms of libertarianism are usually just criticisms of the status quo.)

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3.

Common standards often emerge voluntarily because people prefer objectivity and wish to avoid arbitrariness.

Consider communications technology and the web. Competing phone companies agree on standards for underlying technology so their customers can call each other. Developers of web browsers adopt common standards for the web. Developers of operating systems follow shared, cross-OS standards (called POSIX).

These standards result in objectivity, and they emerged without government involvement. People develop and agree upon such standards voluntarily because of the benefits they offer: without them, there’d be chaos. People generally don’t like chaos.

#3 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

KodoKB writes:

If someone decides to make a website that only supports a certain browser, or to only allow certain encoding methods in their phonelines, while that may exclude me from their services it does not violate my rights. If someone decides that they can steal my IP [intellectual property] and they have an agency that supports this view, they are violating my rights and are being protected in doing so.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #2.

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

#2 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

Common standards often emerge voluntarily because people prefer objectivity and wish to avoid arbitrariness.

Consider communications technology and the web. Competing phone companies agree on standards for underlying technology so their customers can call each other. Developers of web browsers adopt common standards for the web. Developers of operating systems follow shared, cross-OS standards (called POSIX).

These standards result in objectivity, and they emerged without government involvement. People develop and agree upon such standards voluntarily because of the benefits they offer: without them, there’d be chaos. People generally don’t like chaos.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1 · Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

6 months ago · ‘Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism’
  Dennis Hackethal started a discussion titled Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism.

Top objectivist criticisms of anarcho-capitalism and counter-criticisms.

The objectivist stance is that people need one shared government to write laws and resolve disputes. The anarcho-capitalist stance is that private arbitration services and judges could not only do that, too, so that no government is necessary, but could actually do it better.

This discussion is for objectivist criticisms of anarcho-capitalism in particular. Other common criticisms have been addressed here.

The discussion starts with idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

6 months ago