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A discussion can get long even if each criticism is concise.

#4734​·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 6 hours ago​·​Criticism

Someone who recently joined made a bunch of low-quality posts in a short amount of time.

#4733​·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 7 hours ago​·​Criticism

why?

#4732​·​Moritz Wallawitsch revised about 20 hours ago​·​Original #4731​·​CriticismCriticized1

why?

#4731​·​Moritz Wallawitsch, about 20 hours ago

Not if the criticism is clear and concise. That should be incentivized somehow.

#4730​·​Moritz Wallawitsch, about 21 hours ago​·​Criticized1

A discussion needs to be more skimmable via one or both of these:
1. hide long posts behind "read more" button
2. collapse critique chains/threads behind a "reply more" button

#4729​·​Moritz Wallawitsch, about 21 hours ago​·​Criticism

The UI needs to be more minimalistic. Too many buttons to click on. Needs clear primary action on every screen.

#4728​·​Moritz Wallawitsch, about 21 hours ago​·​Criticism

Need summaries at top of discussions. Could be AI generated.

#4727​·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 21 hours ago​·​Criticism
#4725​·​Dennis Hackethal revised about 22 hours ago​·​Original #4724
#4724​·​Dennis Hackethal, about 22 hours ago​·​Criticized1

Criticized per #4718: AIs are not "narrowly creative"; there is only creativity in the binary, universal sense, per Deutsch.

#4723​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago​·​Criticism

The definition of fitness that rendered Move 37 the best choice originated outside the system.

#4722​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago

This highlights the core mystery of AGI/creativity: if it is the creation of something which cannot be deduced from existing rules (yet is still helpful, hard-to-vary, knowledge-bearing, etc.), how can it be programmed? In a sense it cannot, as Deutsch writes: "...what distinguishes human brains from all other physical systems is qualitatively different from all other functionalities, and cannot be specified in the way that all other attributes of computer programs can be. It cannot be programmed by any of the techniques that suffice for writing any other type of program." [https://aeon.co/essays/how-close-are-we-to-creating-artificial-intelligence]

#4721​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago

If the human made Move 37 for the same reason as AlphaGo, it would not be creative. Such moves are creative when humans make them because they are not deducing them (they can't due to practical limitations). If something can be deduced, it is not creative. Creativity is the conjecture of a new structure which is not derivable/deducible/implicit via existing rules of inference. All AI-generated art is implicit in the training data and model design in the same sense, so is not being made via creativity.

#4720​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago​·​Criticism

If there had been no AlphaGo and no Move 37, and a human had made that move, as they have similar moves, it would no doubt be called creative genius (as similar moves have). Isn't the above a double standard?

#4719​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

Move 37 was not new knowledge. It was the winning choice in that situation before the AI ever existed, because it was deducible from the game's rules and the current board state. It was implicit knowledge, already contained in the system at that time. AlphaGo made it explicit, by finding it, like a search engine, but did not create it. If you calculate the trillionth digit of pi, you haven't created new knowledge, at least not in any sense we should mean. You have simply revealed a value that was already fixed by a definition.

The fact that Move 37 wasn't explicitly in the training data or the programmers is irrelevant to its status as knowledge. This is true for pi, and for all content created by AI at the time of this writing.

#4718​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 days ago​·​Criticism

Move 37 was not explicitly present in the training data, nor designed by the programmers, and is extremely hard to vary (Deutsch's criterion for good explanations). Was the move present implicitly in the design of the system and/or the training data? Or inexplicitly? Do either of these mean the discovery of the move was non-creative?

#4716​·​Tyler MillsOP revised 3 days ago​·​Original #4685

If you don’t have any counter-criticisms, how could the criticisms not be decisive?

#4714​·​Dennis HackethalOP revised 5 days ago​·​Original #2131​·​Criticism

To arrive at that conclusion, you’d first need some counter-criticism anyway.

#4713​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 5 days ago​·​Criticism

Just how ‘tiny’ is a criticism then? By reference to what principle or measure?

#4712​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 5 days ago​·​Criticism

To incorporate some notion of decisiveness or severity, we need to be prepared to program that into our decision-making tool. I’m not aware that anyone knows how to programmatically determine the severity or decisiveness of a criticism, and I suspect outsourcing it to the user would result in the same unintended behavior we saw with the sliders for hard to vary.

#4711​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 5 days ago​·​Criticism

My Conjecture

Conjecture: addiction is the result of the entrenchment of a conflict between two or more preferences in a mind.

Picture someone who wants to give up social media but also really enjoys social media. Those preferences conflict.

If the conflict is entrenched, then both preferences get to live on indefinitely. The entrenchment will not let that person give up social media. He will become addicted.

As I write in #4624, curing addiction involves finding a common preference between the conflicting parts of the addict’s mind: something all involved parts prefer to their initial positions. In addition, it may involve Randian ideas around introspection and getting one’s reason and emotions in the proper order.

Limitations

I don’t know whether my explanation applies to physical addictions. For example, I understand severe alcoholics run the risk of death if they quit cold turkey, so for them, it can’t be only about preferences. There’s clearly a physical component as well. So I’m limiting my thoughts on addiction to what we might call ‘addictions of the mind.’ Note, though, that addictions could come in pairs: an alcoholic could have both a physical and a mental addiction to alcohol.

Also, I don’t claim that entrenchment always causes addiction, or that every addiction is the result of entrenchment. I claim that entrenchment is a cause – maybe a common cause – of addiction. I also claim that curing addictions of the mind is an epistemological matter, not a medical/scientific one.

#4709​·​Dennis HackethalOP revised 5 days ago​·​Original #730

Yes, but they’ll need to be aware of the conflict, at which point both conflicting ideas/preferences exist in both minds. So that scenario reduces to a conflict of preferences inside a single mind.

#4707​·​Dennis HackethalOP revised 5 days ago​·​Original #4706​·​Criticism

Yes, but they’ll need to be aware of the conflict, at which point both conflicting ideas/preferences exist in both minds.

#4706​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 5 days ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

Idea: does the entrenchment not even strictly need to be between preferences that are both inside the same mind?

Could entrenchment between preferences across minds also cause addiction for at least one or both of them?

#4705​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 5 days ago​·​Criticized1