Activity Feed

  Knut Sondre Sæbø revised criticism #4842.

"Understanding" isn't just another way of saying "can explain." An RNG could by chance generate a good explanation, but it doesn't understand it, and therefore can't distinguish it from garbage. Understanding involves recognizing that something is a good explanation. It is conscious understanding that makes conjecture and criticism possible. Without it, you have no criticism, only random selection. What do you think of the suggestion that what's lacking from the explanatory universality definition, is an intelligent selection mechanism. A random program can generate any explanation given infinite time, but it will never select which explanation is good.

"Understanding" isn't just another way of saying "can explain.". Explaining follows from understanding, but isn't synonymous. An RNG could by chance generate a good explanation, but it doesn't understand it, and therefore can't distinguish it from garbage. Understanding involves recognizing that something is a good explanation. It is conscious understanding that makes conjecture and criticism possible. Without it, you have no criticism, only random selection. What do you think of the suggestion that what's lacking from the explanatory universality definition, is an intelligent selection mechanism. A random program can generate any explanation given infinite time, but it will never select which explanation is good.

  Knut Sondre Sæbø addressed criticism #4808.

Maybe... but "understanding" is too vague, I think. Doesn't understanding mean: can explain? But then this is just "can create any explanation" again. I think the core question is why a random program generator isn't a person, coming from Deutsch's definition of a person as a program that has explanatory universality -- can create any explanation (my thought here is that this definition isn't good enough on its own, given the random generator point).

#4808​·​Tyler MillsOP, 2 days ago

"Understanding" isn't just another way of saying "can explain." An RNG could by chance generate a good explanation, but it doesn't understand it, and therefore can't distinguish it from garbage. Understanding involves recognizing that something is a good explanation. It is conscious understanding that makes conjecture and criticism possible. Without it, you have no criticism, only random selection. What do you think of the suggestion that what's lacking from the explanatory universality definition, is an intelligent selection mechanism. A random program can generate any explanation given infinite time, but it will never select which explanation is good.

  Dennis Hackethal archived idea #4838 along with any revisions.
  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #4838.

The "Battle tested" badge should have a hyphen!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battle-tested

#4838​·​Tyler Mills, about 24 hours ago

Thanks, fixed.

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #4822.

Ah, so if I understand correctly, there are two knobs affecting speed (elapsed time) for a given algorithm: the hardware, and the implementation of the algorithm. The given algorithm has a complexity, independent of those two, which is how the time and memory scales with an input.

#4822​·​Tyler MillsOP, 1 day ago

The given algorithm has a complexity, independent of [the implementation]

No, the complexity depends on the implementation.

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #4837.

Bounties could pay out multiplicatively, up to a limit (e.g. 10$ per criticism, up to 3). This would preserve the incentive for bounty hunting after one criticism has already been posted.

#4837​·​Tyler Mills, about 24 hours ago

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s how standing bounties work already.

When you fund a standing bounty, you set the number of criticisms you’re willing to pay for, and the amount for each.

If that’s something you want to do for your current bounty, you still can, before current funding runs out.

See also “How Do Bounties Work?”

  Tyler Mills posted criticism #4838.

The "Battle tested" badge should have a hyphen!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battle-tested

  Tyler Mills posted idea #4837.

Bounties could pay out multiplicatively, up to a limit (e.g. 10$ per criticism, up to 3). This would preserve the incentive for bounty hunting after one criticism has already been posted.

  Tyler Mills commented on idea #4824.

Thoughts on an optional "implies" relation for ideas? I find myself commenting on one idea something which it implies, then criticizing that, but the original idea is not marked criticized. Being able to chain or bundle ideas avoids the bookkeeping issue of having to make new criticisms for each step in the chain, if one is criticized.

#4824​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

Related to this or not, it could be useful to be able to set a bounty on a set of ideas, rather than just one. "Criticize any of these ideas for n$".

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4834.

Currently, a single gray "thread" comes off an idea, and splits off into sub-ideas. A single criticism in the above scheme would turn the whole thread red, which is ambiguous.

#4834​·​Tyler Mills, about 24 hours ago

The main thread is ambiguous currently, by that reasoning: it's always gray. Having the whole thing red to indicate one or more pending criticisms below seems useful, and cool. And the offshoots from the main thread (the little curly part leading to each sub-idea) can have the new colors.

E.g.: User scrolls down the main bright red thread, past gray comment offshoots and dim red refuted criticism offshoots, until reaching the bright red pending criticisms offshoot that is the cause of the main thread being bright red. (!)

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4827.

Reiterating/refining #3904: I think the yellow "Criticism of" bubbles can and should be replaced by a graphical indication that is much easier on the eyes. The dropdown line can be made red if the comment it leads to is a criticism, and the bubble on the criticism can be eliminated. Reading the yellow bubble to get the idea # it is referring to, then searching the ideas above for the matching # is inelegant (even if it is usually the one right above).

#4827​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

Currently, a single gray "thread" comes off an idea, and splits off into sub-ideas. A single criticism in the above scheme would turn the whole thread red, which is ambiguous.

  Tyler Mills commented on criticism #4827.

Reiterating/refining #3904: I think the yellow "Criticism of" bubbles can and should be replaced by a graphical indication that is much easier on the eyes. The dropdown line can be made red if the comment it leads to is a criticism, and the bubble on the criticism can be eliminated. Reading the yellow bubble to get the idea # it is referring to, then searching the ideas above for the matching # is inelegant (even if it is usually the one right above).

#4827​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

And dimmer red for refuted criticisms, brighter red for pending ones! Default gray for comments.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4828.

The yellow bubbles link to the ideas they are criticizing, which can be handy.

#4828​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

The link could be put in a new tooltip, or something. Or kept as is, just without the yellow bubble, frankly.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4830.

The quote

indentation bar

is red, which would cause visual confusion.

#4830​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

It should be made not red. Gray. Arguable even without the red criticism line idea above, since it already conflicts with the "red = criticism" motif.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4827.

Reiterating/refining #3904: I think the yellow "Criticism of" bubbles can and should be replaced by a graphical indication that is much easier on the eyes. The dropdown line can be made red if the comment it leads to is a criticism, and the bubble on the criticism can be eliminated. Reading the yellow bubble to get the idea # it is referring to, then searching the ideas above for the matching # is inelegant (even if it is usually the one right above).

#4827​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

The quote

indentation bar

is red, which would cause visual confusion.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4828.

The yellow bubbles link to the ideas they are criticizing, which can be handy.

#4828​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

Is it handy? I have yet to want to open the criticized idea in a new tab. I have only ever wanted to scroll up to see it, which is slightly irksome with the current yellow bubble hashtag-matching method. And when the criticized idea is clearly immediately above, the yellow bubbles serve no real purpose, only add visual clutter.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4827.

Reiterating/refining #3904: I think the yellow "Criticism of" bubbles can and should be replaced by a graphical indication that is much easier on the eyes. The dropdown line can be made red if the comment it leads to is a criticism, and the bubble on the criticism can be eliminated. Reading the yellow bubble to get the idea # it is referring to, then searching the ideas above for the matching # is inelegant (even if it is usually the one right above).

#4827​·​Tyler Mills, 1 day ago

The yellow bubbles link to the ideas they are criticizing, which can be handy.

  Tyler Mills posted criticism #4827.

Reiterating/refining #3904: I think the yellow "Criticism of" bubbles can and should be replaced by a graphical indication that is much easier on the eyes. The dropdown line can be made red if the comment it leads to is a criticism, and the bubble on the criticism can be eliminated. Reading the yellow bubble to get the idea # it is referring to, then searching the ideas above for the matching # is inelegant (even if it is usually the one right above).

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4616.

Not sure this is a good idea. You say you wouldn’t mind horizontal scrolling, but users generally dislike horizontal scroll.

#4616​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 25 days ago

Could be optional, as I said. Rearrange top-level ideas as toggled. Maybe not worth the trouble. Just spitballing. See #4825.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #4617.

Unclear how comments would be rendered.

#4617​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 25 days ago

Not understanding this criticism. Maybe my idea is unclear. I'm picturing the existing "column" of a discussion, repeated column-wise for each top-level idea. Current discussion content takes up only the left ~third of my screen, while the right two thirds of my screen is totally unused. The cost of using that real estate is more content (clutter) on screen, the benefit is less time scrolling up and down in one dimension, looking for given ideas and getting bearings, which I sometimes find tiring. A second dimension helps get bearings (e.g. "Oh yeah, this relates to that one over here near the middle of the third column." Rather than: "That one was ... 77% of the way down the page, hmm, what were some words from it that I can use to ctrl+f, grrrrr.").

  Tyler Mills posted idea #4824.

Thoughts on an optional "implies" relation for ideas? I find myself commenting on one idea something which it implies, then criticizing that, but the original idea is not marked criticized. Being able to chain or bundle ideas avoids the bookkeeping issue of having to make new criticisms for each step in the chain, if one is criticized.

  Tyler Mills commented on criticism #4813.

Creativity isn't defined by its outputs but by its process. RNGs do not recognise or criticise ideas.

#4813​·​Dirk Meulenbelt, 2 days ago

Agreed on both counts, but I think the bountied idea survives this...
Recognizing and criticizing ideas could be a requisite for tractably synthesizing any possible explanation (I suspect as much).

  Tyler Mills commented on criticism #4816.

Speed is a property of programs, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation

#4816​·​Dennis Hackethal, 2 days ago

Ah, so if I understand correctly, there are two knobs affecting speed (elapsed time) for a given algorithm: the hardware, and the implementation of the algorithm. The given algorithm has a complexity, independent of those two, which is how the time and memory scales with an input.

  Tyler Mills revised idea #4740.

Assumption A1: Only programs that are people while running constitute qualia/experience/subjectivity/consciousness.

Assumption A1: Only programs that are people, while running, can constitute qualia/experience/subjectivity/consciousness.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #4809.

A random number generator does not have universal creativity, because it is not a universal explainer: it can only generate explanations by accident. Universal explainers seek good explanations through conjecture and criticism.

#4809​·​Dirk Meulenbelt revised 2 days ago

Universal explainers

In the context of how AGI may work – which seems to be what Tyler is mostly interested in – the concept of a universal explainer might not get us very far. Creativity is the more fundamental concept, I think.

A person is a universal explainer, yes, but he could also use his creativity to come up with reasons not to create explanations.

https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/explain-irrational-minds