Objectivist Criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism

  Dennis Hackethal submitted idea #892.

Harry Binswanger wrote a piece titled ‘Sorry Libertarian Anarchists, Capitalism Requires Government’ for Forbes, criticizing the libertarian position.

  Dennis Hackethal revised criticism #11.

Defensive force and security services are productive endeavors.

Retaliatory force is only part thereof, and defense involves the employment of scarce resources, thus economic principles apply. (Logan Chipkin)

Defensive force and security services are productive endeavors.

Retaliatory force is only part thereof, and defense involves the employment of scarce resources, thus economic principles apply. (Logan Chipkin)

If the government tries to step outside the free market, that’s tantamount to pretending there’s magically no scarcity for the government. But in reality, the government still has to attract talent to fill government jobs, pay that talent, and use scarce resources. If it tries this without the error-correction mechanisms the free market provides, it will do anything poorly.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #23.

Government creates consent. Without government, there is no consent.

#23·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Two people out in international waters, or in space, or anywhere else with no government, can still have consensual interactions. For example, they can decide to share a sandwich. That’s still consensual if neither party has a preference that arbitrarily steamrolls over the other.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #23.

Government creates consent. Without government, there is no consent.

#23·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

There are already consensual interactions between people that are nonetheless unregulated. Sex, for instance.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #75.

One difference between having multiple objectivist countries and having private arbitration services is that the latter can operate in the same territory whereas the former have distinct territories. So this may not be a stolen concept after all.

#75·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Requiring one government per physical territory is an anachronism that Rand retains. Seems unnecessary – see criticisms to #2.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #74.

Building on #17 and #22, imagine a world with multiple objectivist countries. Say the US is purely objectivist, and so is England.

Presumably, Rand would see no problem with multiple objectivist countries coexisting. She would consider this state of affairs not only possible but desirable.

Yet how is that state different from the problem she describes in #14? Objectivist countries would be voluntarily financed by voluntary taxation; private arbitration services would be voluntarily financed through voluntary payments as well.

Isn’t this an instance of a stolen concept?

The “stolen concept” fallacy, first identified by Ayn Rand, is the fallacy of using a concept while denying the validity of its genetic roots, i.e., of an earlier concept(s) on which it logically depends.

Rand is using a concept – objectivism, which logically depends on peaceful coexistence of voluntarily financed groups of people – to argue against the possibility of the peaceful coexistence of voluntarily financed groups of people!

#74·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

One difference between having multiple objectivist countries and having private arbitration services is that the latter can operate in the same territory whereas the former have distinct territories. So this may not be a stolen concept after all.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #14.

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

#14·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Building on #17 and #22, imagine a world with multiple objectivist countries. Say the US is purely objectivist, and so is England.

Presumably, Rand would see no problem with multiple objectivist countries coexisting. She would consider this state of affairs not only possible but desirable.

Yet how is that state different from the problem she describes in #14? Objectivist countries would be voluntarily financed by voluntary taxation; private arbitration services would be voluntarily financed through voluntary payments as well.

Isn’t this an instance of a stolen concept?

The “stolen concept” fallacy, first identified by Ayn Rand, is the fallacy of using a concept while denying the validity of its genetic roots, i.e., of an earlier concept(s) on which it logically depends.

Rand is using a concept – objectivism, which logically depends on peaceful coexistence of voluntarily financed groups of people – to argue against the possibility of the peaceful coexistence of voluntarily financed groups of people!

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #25.

Dispute resolution, lawmaking, and personal defense are only proper in the hands of government.

#25·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

CrowBot99 writes:

In order for a military and police to be valid, it would need the consent of the governed […], but a hidden qualification is MOST of the governed, which is an exception to individual right of association.

And:

[Rand’s] conclusion, in essence, is that an individuals [sic] right to choose who defends them should be ignored for the sake of a collective good, which seems to me an exception to one of our shared principles.

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Dispute resolution, lawmaking, and personal defense are only proper in the hands of government.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #23.

Government creates consent. Without government, there is no consent.

#23·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

It doesn’t. Not any more than it creates man’s rights. Whether an interaction is consensual is derived from the nature of the interaction itself.

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Government creates consent. Without government, there is no consent.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #14.

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

#14·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Taken to its logical conclusion, Rand’s argument necessitates a single world government, which doesn’t fit with the objectivist notion that government should be limited.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #20.

KodoKB writes:

[…] I disagree that international law and agreements are such a shining example for having anarchy on a local scale. The defense of my rights from someone who lives in my neighborhood shouldn’t rely on the extradition agreements between our two protection agencies, there should be clearly established rules about how what rights of action we have and don’t have, and it should be clearly established how we can resolve disputes about those issues. And if my neighbors all have different agencies, then it cannot be practically clear to me what all of those actions and resolutions are.

#20·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

In anticipation of this problem, different protection agencies would develop such rules and procedures, which could be publicly accessible for their customers to peruse.

Solving this problem is one of the main value propositions these agencies have to offer. Without a solution, people won’t give them money. So these agencies have an incentive to put their heads together and come up with common standards.

For novel situations where they don’t have an applicable standard yet, see the myth of the framework (#16).

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #17.

A common libertarian argument is that governments already compete. They are already in a state of anarchy with each other, yet the world still works somehow, and states can and do have agreements and common standards (eg extradition rules).

#17·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

KodoKB writes:

[…] I disagree that international law and agreements are such a shining example for having anarchy on a local scale. The defense of my rights from someone who lives in my neighborhood shouldn’t rely on the extradition agreements between our two protection agencies, there should be clearly established rules about how what rights of action we have and don’t have, and it should be clearly established how we can resolve disputes about those issues. And if my neighbors all have different agencies, then it cannot be practically clear to me what all of those actions and resolutions are.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #18.

Governments often wage war against each other.

#18·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Governments do wage wars against each other, but private arbitration services would be less inclined to do so because, unlike governments, they do not have an effectively infinite amount of extorted money (taxes), fiat money, and human lives to draw from.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #17.

A common libertarian argument is that governments already compete. They are already in a state of anarchy with each other, yet the world still works somehow, and states can and do have agreements and common standards (eg extradition rules).

#17·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Governments often wage war against each other.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #14.

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

#14·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

A common libertarian argument is that governments already compete. They are already in a state of anarchy with each other, yet the world still works somehow, and states can and do have agreements and common standards (eg extradition rules).

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #14.

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

#14·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Rand’s illustration is an instance of a mistake Karl Popper calls the myth of the framework: https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/objectivism-vs-the-myth-of-the-framework

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #14.

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

#14·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Libertarians such as David Friedman have explained how that situation could be resolved peaceably:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yo7vnXmVlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnkC7CNvyI

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

One illustration will be sufficient [to show that a society made of competing governments cannot work]: suppose Mr. Smith, a customer of [arbitration service] A, suspects that his next-door neighbor, Mr. Jones, a customer of [arbitration service] B, has robbed him; a squad of Police A proceeds to Mr. Jones’ house and is met at the door by a squad of Police B, who declare that they do not accept the validity of Mr. Smith’s complaint and do not recognize the authority of [arbitration service] A. What happens then? You take it from there.

As I have written before, Rand “implies that they could never resolve their conflict – or worse, that they would be in a perpetual state of war – because they don’t have a shared jurisdiction, an underlying legal framework.”

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #12.

KodoKB points out a risk of abuse:

The use of retaliatory force has an objective risk of being misapplied and therefore of violating the rights of others.

Related: #4

#12·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

A monopoly on violence amplifies the risk of abuse.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #11.

Defensive force and security services are productive endeavors.

Retaliatory force is only part thereof, and defense involves the employment of scarce resources, thus economic principles apply. (Logan Chipkin)

#11·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

KodoKB points out a risk of abuse:

The use of retaliatory force has an objective risk of being misapplied and therefore of violating the rights of others.

Related: #4

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #10.

[There is a] difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production.

Rand says ancaps make the same mistake as “modern statists” – they don’t see this difference.

#10·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

Defensive force and security services are productive endeavors.

Retaliatory force is only part thereof, and defense involves the employment of scarce resources, thus economic principles apply. (Logan Chipkin)

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #1.

The anarcho-capitalist stance: competing governments in a single territory would not only work but be superior to having a single government, a monopoly on violence.

#1·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

[There is a] difference between the functions of government and the functions of industry, between force and production.

Rand says ancaps make the same mistake as “modern statists” – they don’t see this difference.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #2.

[I]t is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

In other words, having multiple governments in a single territory would not result in having objective laws.

Reddit user KodoKB explains why:

[T]here could be thousands of slight (or not so slight) variations between the different agencies. Because there are so many different definitions of what’s allowed, the law then would not be objective in the sense that it’s not practically possible for an individual to know what actions are permissible and which aren’t.

#2·Dennis HackethalOP, over 1 year ago

There exist many legal variations between states of the US, eg with regard to wiretapping laws (single-party vs two-party-consent states), yet presumably that wouldn’t lead KodoKB to conclude that federalism is bad.