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In summer in the desert, will it "probably" be sunny in the afternoon?

#4760·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

PROBLEM: Why are we conscious of the apple rendering? Given (6), why is there an experience of it, if the programs comprising it are looping, and so are therefore predefined?

#4752·​Tyler MillsOP revised 7 months ago·​Original #4748

SOLUTION: The apple programs are not the same programs one execution to the next. They are being re-evolved every time they are run. This evolution is what the person is doing, and so must be what gives rise to the experience consisting of the apple rendering.

#4751·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

This suggests that programs can be “run differently” to result in a different computation. This is false because it violates Substrate Independence: the instantiation of a program is unaffected by its physical implementation. If a “context” changes what the program is computing, then that’s a different program. Suggesting that a person running the apple programs “makes them” conscious therefore is not sound. The programs are either conscious or not. If they were, by (A1), they would be people.

#4750·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

(7) We can be conscious of the apple imagery for the entire 5 seconds.

#4747·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

(6) Repeated running of the same fixed program is automatic, requires no creativity, and cannot constitute experience.

#4746·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

(5) Repeated running of the same fixed program, not being a person, does not make it a person.

#4745·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

(4) The programs rendering the apple are not people, so cannot themselves constitute experience.

#4743·​Tyler MillsOP revised 7 months ago·​Original #4739

(3) The programs rendering the apple imagery must be looping until stopped, since they could not have advance knowledge of when the stimulus stops.

#4738·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

(2) The rendering is caused by the running of some number of programs.

#4737·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

(1) During the entire 5 seconds, your mind renders the image of the apple.

#4736·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

“What do people misunderstand most about crystal meth addiction?” https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-misunderstand-most-about-crystal-meth-addiction/answer/Notmy-Realname-133

Interesting read.

#4735·​Dennis Hackethal, 7 months ago

A discussion can get long even if each criticism is concise.

#4734·​Dennis HackethalOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

Someone who recently joined made a bunch of low-quality posts in a short amount of time.

#4733·​Dennis HackethalOP, 7 months ago·​CriticismArchived

why?

#4731·​Moritz Wallawitsch, 7 months ago·​Archived

Making a Minecraft clone with AI:

#4725·​Dennis Hackethal revised 7 months ago·​Original #4724

Criticized per #4718: AIs are not "narrowly creative"; there is only creativity in the binary, universal sense, per Deutsch.

#4723·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

This highlights the core mystery of AGI/creativity: if it is the creation of something which cannot be deduced from existing rules (yet is still helpful, hard-to-vary, knowledge-bearing, etc.), how can it be programmed? In a sense it cannot, as Deutsch writes: "...what distinguishes human brains from all other physical systems is qualitatively different from all other functionalities, and cannot be specified in the way that all other attributes of computer programs can be. It cannot be programmed by any of the techniques that suffice for writing any other type of program." [https://aeon.co/essays/how-close-are-we-to-creating-artificial-intelligence]

#4721·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago

If the human made Move 37 for the same reason as AlphaGo, it would not be creative. Such moves are creative when humans make them because they are not deducing them (they can't due to practical limitations). If something can be deduced, it is not creative. Creativity is the conjecture of a new structure which is not derivable/deducible/implicit via existing rules of inference. All AI-generated art is implicit in the training data and model design in the same sense, so is not being made via creativity.

#4720·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

Move 37 was not new knowledge. It was the winning choice in that situation before the AI ever existed, because it was deducible from the game's rules and the current board state. It was implicit knowledge, already contained in the system at that time. AlphaGo made it explicit, by finding it, like a search engine, but did not create it. If you calculate the trillionth digit of pi, you haven't created new knowledge, at least not in any sense we should mean. You have simply revealed a value that was already fixed by a definition.

The fact that Move 37 wasn't explicitly in the training data or the programmers is irrelevant to its status as knowledge. This is true for pi, and for all content created by AI at the time of this writing.

#4718·​Tyler MillsOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

Move 37 was not explicitly present in the training data, nor designed by the programmers, and is extremely hard to vary (Deutsch's criterion for good explanations). Was the move present implicitly in the design of the system and/or the training data? Or inexplicitly? Do either of these mean the discovery of the move was non-creative?

#4716·​Tyler MillsOP revised 7 months ago·​Original #4685

If you don’t have any counter-criticisms, how could the criticisms not be decisive?

#4714·​Dennis HackethalOP revised 7 months ago·​Original #2131·​Criticism

To arrive at that conclusion, you’d first need some counter-criticism anyway.

#4713·​Dennis HackethalOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

Just how ‘tiny’ is a criticism then? By reference to what principle or measure?

#4712·​Dennis HackethalOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism

To incorporate some notion of decisiveness or severity, we need to be prepared to program that into our decision-making tool. I’m not aware that anyone knows how to programmatically determine the severity or decisiveness of a criticism, and I suspect outsourcing it to the user would result in the same unintended behavior we saw with the sliders for hard to vary.

#4711·​Dennis HackethalOP, 7 months ago·​Criticism