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Assuming Sam did mean to criticize my opposition to assigning strengths to criticisms:

The issue isn’t that we don’t have a way to fix the hole. (We often do.)
The issue is that we have no rigorous way to tell how big the hole is. So, rather than evade criticisms by saying ‘but it’s only a small hole’, I’m saying we should always either fix holes in the boat, no matter their size, or choose a different boat.

#5100​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

Unclear what the boat stands for.

Sam criticized my idea, so presumably he means for the boat to represent #4711. But the way his criticism is phrased, it sounds more like the boat represents the methodology of assigning strengths to criticisms.

#5099​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

I wonder if there is any significance to the "distance" the laws of physics are from us, in the sense of emergence. Each quantum application of the laws of physics (conceived as discrete steps) is so far down, but maybe it need not be so. Maybe there are people in other laws of physics, where the laws are much closer at hand. Do the laws need to have a certain minimum range of emergence for personhood to be possible..? Couldn't people like us exist in a universe where fundamental physics is no more complex than the operation of our minds, or is the "breathing room" we have here necessary?

#5098​·​Tyler Mills, 3 months ago

To be clear, the boat represents the idea that we should judge criticisms by their strength?

#5097​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago

if somebody suggests some system they can’t put into practice, then the system is no good.

Agreed. My point is that you can't refute a flaw by saying the flaw doesn't have a workable system to resolve it. "Your boat has a hole in it". "Yeah, well I don't have any way of fixing it". That doesn't resolve the criticism of the boat. If it's unfixable and a real flaw, you might just need a new boat.

#5096​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 3 months ago​·​CriticismCriticized2

Logically, yes. But in practice, it won’t be the same.

For example:

Idea A: ‘Newtonian gravity is true.’ → Has pending criticisms (some predictions don’t match observation).
Idea B: ‘Newtonian gravity is not true.’ → Also has pending criticisms: ‘Not helpful’; ‘Doesn’t tell us how gravity works’; etc.

Related: https://www.daviddeutsch.org.uk/2014/08/simple-refutation-of-the-bayesian-philosophy-of-science/

#5095​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but if somebody suggests some system they can’t put into practice, then the system is no good.

#5094​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

This sounds like a version of #2195, see criticism #2198.

#5093​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

Then the idea ‘I could either address that pending criticism or, if I fail to do that, look into all the other pending criticisms’ would have no pending criticisms.

#5092​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

If other criteria for the selection of conjectures were built into the system, such as in the genes of a human, the growth of knowledge would be bounded to only conjectures meeting those criteria, even if the variation/conjecture aspect of the process were proceeding via a random process with no built-in knowledge. Fixed criteria means bounded knowledge, means no universality. So for unbounded progress (universality), the criteria must also be varied. But how are they criticized? What criteria for their selection can there be to avoid a regress, except survival?

#5091​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 months ago

All subsequent knowledge in the system will be descended from the initial knowledge. So all knowledge in a knowledge-growing system must be either created by or comprised of replicators.

#5090​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 months ago

Knowledge growth (such as in genes in the biosphere, or in a person) can only proceed by conjecture and criticism -- variation and selection. In a system which can create knowledge, but has not yet, there are no modes of substantive criticism available, since that would itself require knowledge. So how can the system create knowledge at all? Because although substantive criticism is not yet possible, the crudest form of full-on refutation is: the destruction of the information medium on which a conjecture is based, i.e., death. Death is the only "undesigned" refutation. So any initial knowledge created in an otherwise empty knowledge-creating system can only be that relating to how to avoid death in the local environment. This is the knowledge which defines replicators.

#5089​·​Tyler MillsOP, 3 months ago​·​Criticized1

Is rejecting an idea equivalent to adopting it's negation?

#5088​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 3 months ago

But what if the idea that you should be suspicious of a large volume of criticism in a short time has pending criticism itself?

#5087​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 3 months ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

An inability to improve on the criticized aspect of a system is not a refutation of that criticism.

#5086​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 3 months ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

This approach does not specify how long you should spend coming up with criticisms before adopting it, therefore it cannot be put into action as stated. The delay must be nonzero otherwise, the fresh idea "you should ignore criticisms" would nullify the system.

#5085​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 3 months ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

Now also available on PhilPapers: https://philpapers.org/archive/HACTSO-6.pdf

#5084​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago

I’ve formalized some of these ideas in my first paper, ‘The Structure of Rational Thought’.

https://www.academia.edu/170297518/The_Structure_of_Rational_Thought

#5083​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 3 months ago

And again, not convinced any external world or feedback is required for open-endedness (per Deutsch). It might merely be very helpful.

Yes, and perhaps this helpfulness is underestimated? One guess is therefore that the plateaus that have occurred is due to the difficulty of escaping the hardware case of the computer. Our vehicles (bodies) allow for much easier physical instantiation of replicators, compared to replicators inside computers.

#5082​·​Erik Orrje, 3 months ago​·​Criticism

There must be a minimum amount of available memory needed for a program to be a person. What can the program not do, below that minimum? What is that minimum M bits being used for that cannot be done with M-1 bits?

#5081​·​Tyler Mills, 3 months ago

I usually get conspiracy vibes from anti-fluoride sources, but I haven’t looked into it much.

#5080​·​Dennis Hackethal, 4 months ago

Gemini's response to that tweet: "The text uses legitimate biochemical concepts—like the fact that fluoride is a potent halogen that hardens minerals and can be toxic in high doses—to build a narrative based on skewed history. It fabricates a geological explanation for Hereford, Texas, to erase the very thing that actually protected the town's teeth: naturally occurring fluoride."

#5079​·​Tyler Mills, 4 months ago​·​Criticism

Is a quale a sequence of information states? Is this true of any given computation? Does the quale "care" if the states are computed afresh or read from memory?

#5077​·​Tyler MillsOP, 4 months ago

Assuming qualia are classical, there is nothing stopping every step in the computation comprising them from being measured, like any computation. Then, nothing is stopping that recording/program from being rerun.

#5075​·​Tyler MillsOP revised 4 months ago​·​Original #5074​·​CriticismCriticized1