Abortion

See full discussion
  Log in or sign up to participate in this discussion.
With an account, you can revise, criticize, and comment on ideas.

Discussions can branch out indefinitely. Zoom out for the bird’s-eye view.

There’s ‘evictionism’: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evictionism

I like this view because it sidesteps the issue of personhood and at what point it arises. It says you’re free to evict anything, person or not. We don’t know how creativity (ie the universal-explainer software mentioned in #119) works so this is handy.

(Amaro)

#134 · · Dennis HackethalOP revised 11 months ago · context · 2nd of 2 versions · CriticismCriticized3 criticim(s)

The linked Wikipedia article says:

Evictionists view a woman's womb as her property and an unwanted fetus as a "trespasser or parasite", even while lacking the will to act. They argue that a pregnant woman has the right to evict a fetus from her body since she has no obligation to care for a trespasser.

If this is an accurate description of the evictionist view, it strikes me as deeply flawed.

A pregnant woman does have an obligation to care for her fetus (at least once it’s a person). She took an action which resulted in the fetus’s existence.

#121 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #134
#121 · expand

Building on #121, a baby is not a “trespasser”. A pregnant woman ‘invited’ the baby into her womb. Unless she was raped, in which case the rapist ‘put’ the baby there. But the baby is blameless either way and thus can’t be likened to a trespasser.

#122 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #134
#122 · expand

Evictionism doesn’t explain why personhood should be ignored.

(Danny)

#136 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #134

Someone’s personhood has no bearing on whether you should be able to evict them, right? It’s your property, so it’s your choice.

(Amaro)

#137 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #136Criticized1 criticim(s)

It does if you caused them to be there to begin with.

(Danny)

#138 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #137

If you invite someone into your home and they come over you can still change your mind and kick them out. Just because you invited them doesn’t mean they can stay in your home against your will.

(Amaro)

#139 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #138Criticized2 criticim(s)

That’s different because the person in your example made the choice to show up, whereas an unborn baby made no such choice.

(Danny)

#140 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #139
#140 · expand

Building on #140, it’s more like forcing someone into your home, locking the door, making them depend on you for food and water, and then complaining they’re in your home. Clearly, killing them is not the answer (if they’re a person).

#141 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #139

Where exactly does a child’s dependency on the parents end? At five years old? When the child moves out? Seems arbitrary.

(Amaro)

#142 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #141Criticized3 criticim(s)

Whenever a child may reach independence, it’s certainly well past pregnancy, so it’s not an issue wrt abortion.

#143 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #142
#143 · expand

Not a doctor but AFAIK we already have medical knowledge about when physical dependency in particular ends. For example, doctors will sometimes deliver a baby prematurely when continued pregnancy would be dangerous for the mother.

(Danny)

#148 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #142
#148 · expand

When developing rules for society, we run into many arbitrary lines. More important than drawling the lines correctly is retaining the means to redraw them over time.

(Logan)

#152 · · Dennis HackethalOP, 11 months ago · Criticism of #142
#152 · expand
#142 · expand
#141 · expand
#139 · expand
#138 · expand
#137 · expand
#136 · expand
#134 · expand