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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1341·· Collapse

Murdering someone destroys their scarce property (their body  in this case). Copying something using your own property leaves the original totally untouched.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1344·· Collapse

One can steal value without stealing physical property (as happens when you transfer someone’s digital money without their consent).

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1346·· Collapse

The issue is scarcity. Digital money is also scarce since you cannot double spend it. If it wasn't scarce, it wouldn't be money and neither would it be private property.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1347·· Collapse

But digital money isn’t physically scarce like someone’s body. Your argument rests on physical property being special in some way.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1451·· Collapse

Do you agree that scarcity is at least a central consideration in determining whether copying information in disregard of consent should be considered a crime or not?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1452·· Collapse

No I disagree, for all the reasons I already gave in response to #1346.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1453·· Collapse

Copyright infringement usually isn’t a crime.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1357·· Collapse

Imagine living on a flat planet that extends infinitely in all directions.

Land is not scarce on this planet.

You build a house, mixing your labor with an acre of land. Someone comes and takes your land, saying you have no cause for complaint since land isn’t scarce.

See how scarcity isn’t necessary for something to be property?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1359·· Collapse

Take someone’s reputation. That isn’t a ‘scarce’ thing yet it’s a good thing there are laws against defamation.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1360·· Collapse

Reputation is scarce in the sense that it’s limited.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1361·· Collapse

But it isn’t scarce in a physical sense.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1362·· Collapse

I'm not sure it's a good thing.

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1363·· Collapse

So if someone publishes a blog post falsely but believably accusing you of being a pedophile and then all your business partners stop talking to you and you lose all your money and your friends and family ghost you, you wouldn’t want to have any legal recourse?

Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1364·· Collapse

I'm not sure, seriously. I'm open to suggestions.

There's lots of things that I think people shouldn't do yet should still be legal.

Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1366·· Collapse

I can also think of ways this could be misused.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1367·· Collapse

Some people abuse the letter of the law to violate the spirit of the law, but that doesn’t mean the corresponding laws are bad per se. Those are problems, errors that can be corrected.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1345·· Collapse

Laws (against murder and other crimes) don’t reduce to physical property.

Libertarians often think that the purpose of the law is ONLY to define and enforce property rights. In reality, the purpose of the law is to prevent and address the arbitrary in social life.

It’s true that it would be arbitrary if anyone could just take your property against your will, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only kind of arbitrariness the law should prevent/address.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal revised 6 months ago·#1350·· Collapse

Ridiculous definition of murder. Classic libertarian thought bending over backwards to reduce everything to property rights. Please cite a legal text where the definition of murder invokes scarce property.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1352·· Collapse

No. I don't expect to find it, but that doesn't make it less true. That's how I make sense of the difference between IP and real property.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1353·· Collapse

If current law isn’t based on what you claim it’s based on then that does make it less true.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1354·· Collapse

I don't care about current law, there are lots of dumb laws. I care about what's right and why.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1355·· Collapse

But the law against murder isn’t a dumb law even though it doesn’t refer to someone’s body being scarce property.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1356·· Collapse

It’s right for the law to address and prevent the arbitrary, and that’s about more than just property. See #1345.

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