“Can you live your life 100% guided by reason?”

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Knut Sondre Sæbø’s avatar
Knut Sondre Sæbø revised 4 days ago·#3626
3rd of 3 versions leading to #3732 (3 total)

Living according to reason and rationality alone is impossible, because propositional knowledge is only a subset of needed knowledge for an embodied agent (the others being procedural, participatory- and perspectival knowledge)

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Calling people “embodied agent[s]” like they’re barely superior to video-game characters is dehumanizing and weird.

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Knut Sondre Sæbø’s avatar
Knut Sondre Sæbø revised 3 days ago·#3654
2nd of 2 versions leading to #3732 (3 total)

This is also borrowed from cognitive science. But what I meant was to point to the fact that there are “pre-conceptual” models, desires, attentional salience etc. that impinge on and filter input to conscious cognition. An example is how brain regions originally used for moving the body through 3D space are repurposed cognitively to “move around” in idea-space. Some anecdotal evidence for this: notice how many movement metaphors structure propositional thinking. We say we’re close to the truth, we understand, we grasp a concept, we arrive at a conclusion.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

An example is how brain regions originally used for moving the body through 3D space are repurposed cognitively to "move around" in idea-space. Some anecdotal evidence for this: notice how many movement metaphors structure propositional thinking. We say we're close to the truth, we under-stand, we grasp a concept, we arrive at a conclusion.

That has nothing to do with brain regions. An AGI running on a laptop would use the same phrases.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

But an AGI might not develop such phrases independently. (See #3730.)

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Or it might, who knows? An AGI, just like humans, would move around in the world and discover that metaphors are useful, so it might as well use spatial metaphors. If it did, that would be due to convergent evolution of ideas. And even if it didn’t, that could just be because the ideas didn’t converge, not because AGIs don’t have brains.

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Knut Sondre Sæbø’s avatar
Knut Sondre Sæbø revised about 14 hours ago·#3755
3rd of 3 versions

I think that depends on the "embodiment" of the AGI; that is, what it's like to be that AGI and how its normal world appears. A bat (if it were a person) would probably prefer different metaphors than a human would. Humans are very visual, which makes spatial features very salient to us. Metaphors work because they leverage already-salient aspects of experience to illuminate other things. So to train an AGI, I would think it's more useful for that AGI to leverage the salient aspects that are pre-given.

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Knut Sondre Sæbø’s avatar
Knut Sondre Sæbø, about 14 hours ago·#3754

If this is the case, it would make sense to make AGI as similar to ourselves as possible, so AGI can use our pre-existing knowledge more directly.

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3767

So to train an AGI, I would think it's more useful for that AGI to leverage the salient aspects that are pre-given.

You don’t “train” an AGI any more than you’d “train” a child. We’re not talking about dogs here.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis HackethalOP, about 3 hours ago·#3768

I think that depends on the "embodiment" of the AGI; that is, what it's like to be that AGI and how its normal world appears.

Yeah maybe but again (#3693), those are parochial factors, starting points. Ideas are more important. AGI could just switch bodies rapidly anyway.

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