Legality of drugs and other substances

Showing only #4058 and its comments.

See full discussion
  Log in or sign up to participate in this discussion.
With an account, you can revise, criticize, and comment on ideas.

Discussions can branch out indefinitely. You may need to scroll sideways.
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

All drugs should be legal because people have a right to do what they want, as long as it isn’t violating the rights of others.

Criticized2
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

People on drugs violate the rights of others way more often.

Criticism of #4058
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

If they violate rights they should be punished by the law, that applies regardless of if they take drugs or not.

Criticism of #4059Criticized1
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

If the drug + violation becomes a pattern, it's rational to outlaw it. (Assuming the outlawing works.)

E.g. alcohol is prohibited for drivers, even for drivers who are great drunk drivers.

Criticism of #4060
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

Violating the rights of other people depends on whatever their rights are. If we replace it with "desires", or use a libertarian way of saying "aggress on", then it's really just up to the people. I'd rather not live around drug users (depending on the drug), even if none of them physically assault me. I.e. "violation" is subjective, and ultimately decided by the polity that creates the laws.

Criticism of #4058
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

Communities could exclude drug users.

Criticism of #4336Criticized1
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

In today's society they only have this ability to a limited degree, and would still have to deal with the drug users in public.

Criticism of #4337
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Getting someone hooked on an addictive substance to get repeat business is predatory. It’s not an honest way to do business. Even if consuming drugs was legal, maybe the selling of drugs should still be illegal.

Criticism of #4058Criticized2
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

But that way, you pretty much ensure that only scumbags sell drugs. And they definitely don’t care about their customers.

Criticism of #4131
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Related to #4062, making any part of the drug trade illegal just gives gangs and cartels a leg up over law-abiding citizens.

Criticism of #4131
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

Subjectively applies to every good product that makes its purchasers want to buy more of it. Like good food, video games, comfortable chairs.

Criticism of #4131Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Not all cases of wanting more of something are cases of addiction.

I want to buy a second chair because I enjoy the first one, not because I cannot help but buy another.

Getting customers addicted means making it so they cannot exercise their free will (or have serious trouble doing so). They’re effectively unable to criticize ‘buy another’ as a course of action.

Criticism of #4341
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

Getting customers addicted making it "so they cannot exercise their free will" denies human creativity, and opens the door for all sorts of draconic laws where people are "protected from themselves".

Criticism of #4359Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

denies human creativity

No, they’re still creative, and they could overcome the addiction if they knew how, but their creativity is being severely limited.

Criticism of #4371
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

It is not the business of the government to prevent people from severely limiting their own creativity.

Criticism of #4373Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

I agree, but this criticism chain is about predatory businesses limiting their customers’ creativity, not their own.

Criticism of #4374
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

Predatory businesses can’t limit customers’ creativity without the consent of the customer, so these issues are inextricably bound.

Criticism of #4375Criticized1
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

I have zero experience on the drug market, but I think it’s fair to assume that companies that want to get business by inhibiting people’s creativity rather than enhancing it don’t particularly care about consent.

I don’t expect honest advertising from such people. I expect trickery, not consent.

Criticism of #4378
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

Drugs are a net negative for society.

Criticism of #4058Criticized2
Benjamin Davies’s avatar

The purpose of the law isn’t to minimise negatives and maximise positives. The purpose of the law is to uphold the rights of people.

Criticism of #4137
Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

Drugs are too broad of a category. Is widespread cocaine use the same as occasional magic mushrooms? The latter is suggested to have neuro-protective benefits.

Criticism of #4137
Ben GK’s avatar
Ben GK​·​#4061

Define legal, please.

Benjamin Davies’s avatar

Not prohibited by law.

Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar

To produce, purchase, sell, or to use?