Copyright

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1382·· Collapse

Why am I violating her rights?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1383·· Collapse

Because she owns the copyright.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1384·· Collapse

Okay so without referring to current legislation. I understand that it is currently illegal, just like tax evasion, but that won't go far in persuading me that it isn't right.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1385·· Collapse

Ok let’s rewind the clock and say JK Rowling has finished writing Harry Potter but she hasn’t published it yet.

And she says: I’m going to publish and sell this book on condition that anyone who buys it not distribute it further. They can read it but they can’t redistribute it without my permission.

Those are the terms of publication. It’s a contract. And anyone who buys the book is then bound by the contract.

She would not publish the book otherwise.

She created a value and she wants to trade that value for something specific (money in exchange for reading, not redistributing).

Others are free to take her up on the offer or ignore her.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1386·· Collapse

So it's not me who's pirating the book that is violating her right. It's whoever uploaded it for me to download it, right?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1387·· Collapse

If you’re looking for someone to assuage your guilt over having pirated copyrighted content in the past, you won’t get that from me.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle revised 6 months ago·#1389·· Collapse

Lol no, I'm trying to understand your point. You're saying that buying a book is a bit like signing an NDA, where I can be held liable for breach of contract if I disclose information. Did I get that right?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1391·· Collapse

Not like signing NDA since you are free to talk about the ideas in the book in your own words, but kinda like breach of contract yeah.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1393·· Collapse

Okay well I have never thought of it in those terms. I definitely think NDAs should be enforceable.

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1392·· Collapse

If someone steals a bike and then gifts it to you that doesn’t mean the owner can’t have it back just because you didn’t steal it. Same for copyright.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1427·· Collapse

So then JK Rowling can use violence against me to extort the value that I have supposedly stolen by downloading a book that was uploaded in violation of a contract by a third person?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1428·· Collapse

Not sure that’s extortion but yes, generally speaking, people have the right to use force to prevent and address the arbitrary in social life (#1345).

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1429·· Collapse

But I was never party to that contract! I never agreed not to distribute it, and I also didn't actually distribute it. I just downloaded it from Pirate bay.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal revised 5 months ago·#1432·· Collapse

Duplicate of #1386. Repeating an argument that has outstanding criticisms doesn’t address the criticisms. You can address the criticisms or revise the argument or abandon the argument.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal revised 5 months ago·#1434·· Collapse

Circular due to #1386.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1436·· Collapse

There, the owner is short of a bike. Returning it to him will make him whole. The situation looks quite different in the case of information, at least in my eyes. What exactly is to be returned?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1437·· Collapse

Maybe you could simply pay her the price of the book plus interest plus a fee for the inconvenience. Plus some ‘deterrence fee’ so that most people don’t even think of doing it to begin with.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1439·· Collapse

But I didn't agree to buy the book. I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't found it on pirate bay, let's say.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1440·· Collapse

You never agreed to buy the bike either, that’s the point.

Criticism of #1439
Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1441·· Collapse

You didn’t trade value for value. You traded nothing at all and only received. A free market and justice depend on people interacting as traders, not as leeches (objectivism).

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1442·· Collapse

I have received a pattern of information. Information cannot be owned as it is non-scarce. JK Rowling is asking me to give her money for something that was never hers to begin with.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 5 months ago·#1443·· Collapse

Going in circles now.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1444·· Collapse

Not circular since #1346 is not a parent of this idea.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1445·· Collapse

Duplicate of #1346.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 5 months ago·#1438·· Collapse

Just returning the bike doesn’t necessarily make him whole. Maybe he lost revenues during the time he couldn’t use his bike.

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Amaro Koberle’s avatar
Amaro Koberle, 6 months ago·#1397·· Collapse

I wasn't aware that I signed such a contract when buying a book. I think for the contract to be valid I have to be aware of the conditions, no?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal revised 5 months ago·#1400·· Collapse

Copyright is a well-known law in widespread use.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, 6 months ago·#1399·· Collapse

Ignorance of the law is not generally a legal defense, afaik.

If it were, any criminal could simply claim he didn’t know what he was doing was illegal. Which would be arbitrary.

Which brings us, again, to the purpose of the law: to prevent and address the arbitrary in social life (#1345).

Criticism of #1397