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On large pages, like Veritula's discussions, that's too expensive: a refresh re-renders the whole page for every viewer, sends all of it, and morphs all of it, for a change to one idea. Components re-render, send and morph only what changed, so they'd give the same result as morphing on pages where morphing the whole page is too slow to use.

#5857·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism

Procs can't be found again in a later request. The lambda a helper built while rendering the page is gone by the time the page asks for the component, so the server has no way to call it again.

#5856·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism

Turbo 8 already does most of this. With broadcasts_refreshes and morphing, each viewer's page re-renders in their own request when a record changes, keeping scroll position and form state. Components would only save rendering and sending the rest of the page.

#5855·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism1 pending criticism

Make Hiccdown reactive, like Reagent: a proc as the first element marks a component, as in [->(product) { [:li, product.name] }, @product].

The server keeps track of which components each page rendered, with which records, and gives each component's element the id dom_id(record), as turbo streams do. When a record changes (after_commit, checking that it actually changed), the server tells the pages showing it, over Action Cable. Each page then requests just that component, which renders in the viewer's own request, with their user, session, locale, time zone and CSRF token, and swaps it in with a turbo stream.

Rendering the component in the request that changed the record would save that round trip, but that request has none of the viewers' context: it would render for the wrong user, or have to rebuild each viewer's context and render once per viewer.

A first pass can skip checking whether a change affects what a component shows, as when a product's name changes on a page that only shows its price.

#5853·​Dennis HackethalOP revised about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Original #4332·​2 pending criticisms

Done as of 3a304be, to be released in version 1.6.0, as described here. The id and classes can come in any order after the tag name, and two ids in one tag raise ArgumentError.

#5852·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

Known since #301, and accepted in #333: the alternatives, helper class methods (#1980) and separate display classes (#1982), were worse. Qualifying a helper method's name, like items_page rather than calling index, is the way around it.

#5851·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

They already do: turbo-rails gives frame requests its own minimal layout, and Hiccdown leaves it be. As of c5ce76f, to be released in version 1.6.0, a test checks that frame requests keep Turbo's frame layout even where ApplicationHelper#layout exists, and a system test (e71df95) loads a frame in a browser.

#5850·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Archived

Doesn't reproduce as of e71df95. In the app in test/dummy, a form whose action redirects takes one POST and one GET in a headless browser, which a system test now checks.

#5849·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

Probably, and they're fixed. Hiccdown used to force a layout (layout: true, then layout: !request.format.turbo_stream?), overriding the layout method turbo-rails relies on, and turbo-stream requests failed with "no default layout" (fef00cb). cf92f06, in version 1.5.2, stopped forcing a layout. As of c5ce76f and 4a087e4, to be released in version 1.6.0, tests check that frame requests keep Turbo's frame layout and that turbo streams get none, and the app in test/dummy shows it in a browser.

#5848·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

A helper method that calls another action's helper method by name can get another helper's. Rails mixes every helper into every view, so calling index from ItemsHelper#create runs whichever helper's index Rails included last, such as PagesHelper#index:

ruby
module ItemsHelper
def index
[:ul, @items.map { |i| [:li, i.name] }]
end
def create
index # PagesHelper#index, not ItemsHelper#index
end
end

Action names like index, show and edit are in many helpers, and the Readme encourages helper methods calling one another.

#5847·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism1 pending criticismArchived

Fixed as of 99b6280, to be released in version 1.6.0.

#5846·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

On Rails 8.1, Hiccdown's capture hands keyword arguments to the block as key-value pairs rather than as keywords. capture(text: 'foo') { |text:| text } raises ArgumentError: missing keyword: :text instead of returning 'foo', and a block that takes them as a hash, { |options| … }, gets [:text, 'foo'] instead of {text: 'foo'}.

Earlier versions of Rails pass keywords on to the block as a hash, which Hiccdown leaves alone.

#5845·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism1 pending criticismArchived

Mostly, intercepting capture already took care of it: helpers of your own that pass a block on to Rails' helpers, or return Hiccdown, worked. Hiccdown given to Rails' helpers as content didn't, as in content_tag(:div, yield), tag.div([:span, 'foo']) or link_to([:span, 'foo'], path). As of 134deb9, to be released in version 1.6.0, it does.

#5844·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Archived

Yes. As of 4fd7a0e, to be released in version 1.6.0, the layout named X lives in XHelper#layout, just as it would in layouts/X.html.erb, so the application layout lives in ApplicationHelper#layout. yield and yield(:title) work as in an ERB layout, and layout files keep working for a gradual migration.

#5843·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Archived

Fixed as of 31cf174, to be released in version 1.6.0.

#5842·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

Fixed as of 9c46c61, to be released in version 1.6.0.

#5841·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​CriticismArchived

Hiccdown finds an action's helper method through params[:action] rather than the controller's action_name. When a controller runs without the router, as in ProductsController.action(:show).call(env), params[:action] is nil and rendering raises NoMethodError: undefined method 'to_sym' for nil instead of calling ProductsHelper#show.

#5840·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism1 pending criticismArchived

Calling render with options only, such as render status: :not_found or render layout: 'admin', skips the action's helper method and looks for an ERB template instead. Without one, it raises ActionView::MissingTemplate:

ruby
class ProductsController < ApplicationController
def show
render status: :not_found # MissingTemplate, though ProductsHelper#show exists
end
end

Naming the action works around it: render :show, status: :not_found.

#5839·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism1 pending criticismArchived

Fixed as of c36fa5c, version 1.5.2.

#5838·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​CriticismArchived

Fixed as of ed8868b, version 1.3.1.

#5837·​Dennis HackethalOP, about 1 month ago·​CriticismArchived

This works if the tests are identical. What happens if idea A passes test 1 but fails test 2, while idea B passes test 2 but fails test 1?

#5750·​Zelalem Mekonnen, about 1 month ago

Rational Decision-Making

It’s rational to adopt only those ideas which, as written, don’t have pending criticisms, and to reject ideas that do.

If an idea, as written, has no pending criticisms, it’s rational to adopt it and irrational to reject it. What reason could you have to reject it? If it has no pending criticisms, then either no reasons to reject it (ie, criticisms) have been suggested or all suggested reasons have been addressed already.

If an idea, as written, does have pending criticisms, it’s irrational to adopt it and rational to reject it – by reference to those criticisms. What reason could you have to ignore the pending criticisms and adopt it anyway? After all, the previous paragraph applies to pending criticisms, too.

See also:

#5748·​Dennis HackethalOP revised about 1 month ago·​Original #2117·​ Battle-tested · 24

Rational Decision-Making

It is rational to adopt only those ideas which, as written, don’t have pending criticisms, and to reject ideas that do.

If an idea, as written, has no pending criticisms, it’s rational to adopt it and irrational to reject it. What reason could you have to reject it? If it has no pending criticisms, then either 1) no reasons to reject it (ie, criticisms) have been suggested or 2) all suggested reasons have been addressed already.

If an idea, as written, does have pending criticisms, it’s irrational to adopt it and rational to reject it – by reference to those criticisms. What reason could you have to ignore the pending criticisms and adopt it anyway? After all, the previous paragraph applies to pending criticisms.

See also:

#5746·​Dennis HackethalOP revised about 1 month ago·​Original #2117·​1 pending criticism

The evidential standard seems asymmetric.

You have said that there ultimately cannot be a purely behavioral criterion for consciousness, because what matters is an explanation of the underlying program (#5693). But at the same time, apparently rigid or “blatantly robotic” behavior is allowed to count as evidence against consciousness.

In the other direction, apparently flexible, sophisticated or sentient-like animal behavior does not seem able to count correspondingly in favor of consciousness, because it could always in principle have been produced by a nonconscious program.

If behavior alone cannot establish sentience because we need to understand the underlying processing, I don’t see why apparently robotic behavior should by itself count more readily toward insentience. Unless there is already an independent reason to think phenomenal experience requires universal creativity, the evidential standard seems to favor insentience in advance.

#5745·​Vincent Brunsch, about 1 month ago·​AI-assisted·​Criticism3 pending criticisms