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It would be nice if I could collapse the 'submit top-level idea' form. It currently takes up a third of my screen when I scroll on PC.

I hadn't thought of this angle. Very interesting.

I should aim to create a life where it isn't a problem if people who have physical access to me also know what I say online.

I'm not sure what that looks like in practice. I suppose it is highly situational.

Also, if an individual keeps progressing, hopefully he can get into a point in life where people's opinion only 'hurt' his feelings and not his livelihood.

One reason I like the private chat is also because of that. I like the rigorous nature of Veritula and I want that kind of criticisms into my private life.

I applaud your honesty.

No need to. That was a good refutation. I agree that people do forgive too much and forget to ask how that forgiveness is contributing to the problems they have. But, I think there is a kind of forgiveness, really justice, an honest version of it. Because you are fallible. Something like 'I messed up there, here is why I messed up, and here is what I am going to do so it won't happen again.' After that, you forgive yourself.

Obsidian autopairs markdown syntax and brackets. I like it a lot and would like Veritula to have something similar!

For something to be a core virtue, it needs to be a virtue that should always be applied in any situation where it can be applied. Forgiveness is not something that should be applied in relevant all situations, so I don’t believe it is a core virtue.

At best it would be an applied virtue, as an expression of Justice.

I actually think people are too forgiving in some ways.

I’ll think about adding it to the applied virtues list.

Some quotes relating to your idea:

Rationality is man’s basic virtue, the source of all his other virtues... [It] means the recognition and acceptance of reason as one’s only source of knowledge, one’s only judge of values and one’s only guide to action.
— Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness, ch. 1

and

Since these virtues are expressions of rationality, they are logically interconnected... None can be validated in isolation... nor can a man practice any one of them consistently while defaulting on the others.
— Leonard Peikoff, Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, ch. 8

For something to be a core virtue, I think it should be a virtue that should always be applied in any situation where it can be applied. Forgiveness is not something that should be applied in relevant all situations, so I don’t believe it is a core virtue.

At best it would be an applied virtue, as an expression of Justice.

I actually think people are too forgiving in some ways.

I’ll think about adding it to the applied virtues list.

@dennis-hackethal see the revision chain on #3164. Revision 5 improved the content but I accidentally removed valuable comments. Revision 6 (a revision of revision 4) brought back the comments but I failed to include the content improvement in revision 5. I then made revision 7 to have both the comments and the improved content.

Maybe it should be possible to amend which comments apply to an idea without needing to make a whole new revision. This could behave weirdly in some edge cases, but it’s food for thought. If you think the way it currently works is going to be best, that seems fine to me.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality in one’s life.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions, and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “[M]oral ambitiousness”, as Ayn Rand puts it.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality within their own lives.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions, and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “[M]oral ambitiousness”, as Ayn Rand puts it.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality in one’s life.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “Moral ambitiousness” as Ayn Rand puts it.

What happens if and when you fails at the commitment to these values?

I think forgiveness could be another core value. Something like 'when I make mistakes, I will pick myself up at the earliest possible time and keep going. '

It’s interesting how connected these virtues are. Rationality, honesty, integrity, justice, all relate to each other or even fall out of each other. For example, you can’t be honest and irrational, you can’t be a rational liar (with some exceptions), you can’t be dishonest and conscientious, etc.

Maybe the underlying, most fundamental principle is rationality. Or maybe it’s the law of identity, and all of these virtues are different expressions of it. Not sure yet.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality within their own lives.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions, and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “[M]oral ambitiousness”, as Ayn Rand puts it.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality within their own lives.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “[M]oral ambitiousness” as Ayn Rand puts it.

… within their own lives.

Grammar. Do you mean ‘one’s own life’? Or simpler ‘one’s life’ (which you say later on, “one's life and circumstances.”)

Or even simpler, ‘in’ instead of ‘within’

… within their own lives.

Grammar. Do you mean ‘one’s own life’? Or simpler ‘one’s life’.

Core Moral Virtues (influenced by Ayn Rand and CR)

• Rationality: The commitment to the ongoing deliberate use of conjecture and criticism, and to only adopting ideas that have no pending criticisms.

• Honesty: A refusal to evade one's thoughts, a commitment to searching for one's own errors, and a refusal to fake reality to others.

• Integrity: The refusal to permit a breach between one's convictions and one's actions.

• Independence: The acceptance of one's own mind as the first and final executor of rationality within their own lives.

• Justice: The application of rationality in judging ideas, people, and actions and acting on those evaluations proportionately.

• Productiveness: The application of rationality to sustaining and improving one's life and circumstances.

• Pride: An insatiable drive to find and fix errors in one's character, knowledge, and creations. “Moral ambitiousness” as Ayn Rand puts it.

There is overlap but I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing. Many virtues overlap. The purpose of identifying them is to draw focus to different aspects of virtuous as such. Conscientiousness and thoroughness are quite similar, but I think different enough to merit mentioning both.

Excellence and pride are more similar IMO, but I think that it is fine to feature both.

Fallibilism is the view that there is no criterion to say with certainty what’s true and what’s false. As a result, we inevitably make mistakes; all of our knowledge is tentative.

Nothing is obvious but depends on what one understands about reality. No knowledge is beyond revision, even if it claims to be.

Knowledge grows by correcting errors in our knowledge. We correct errors by guessing solutions to problems and then criticizing and testing those proposed solutions.

We should always be careful not to destroy or even slow down the means of error correction.

This view is mainly influenced by Popper, and errors are my own.

There was no need for this revision. #3047 already polished everything. I’m restoring that version.

Before you revise an idea, be sure to check if it has already been revised.

When you do decide to revise an idea, be sure to check off addressed criticisms in the same revision.

#3048 slipped through the cracks somehow.

You don’t need to do anything else for this idea for now.