Bologna · 1651

Riccioli Weighs the Arguments

The goddess of astronomy weighs Copernicus’s system against Riccioli’s and finds his heavier, with Ptolemy’s cast aside, on the frontispiece of the New Almagest
The goddess of astronomy weighs Copernicus’s system against Riccioli’s and finds his heavier, with Ptolemy’s cast aside, on the frontispiece of the New AlmagestEngraving by Francesco Curti, 1651 · The Metropolitan Museum of Art

For and against a moving Earth, the arguments have piled up for a century. The Italian Jesuit astronomer Giovanni Battista Riccioli gathers them in his New Almagest, a vast survey of astronomy: 126 in all, 49 for a moving Earth and 77 against. Weighing them, he concludes that the Earth stands still. But he doesn’t keep Tycho’s circles. Impressed by Kepler’s ellipses, he works them into a system much like Tycho’s: the Moon, the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn roughly circle the Earth, and Mercury, Venus, and Mars go around the Sun on ellipses.

His book also brings a new map of the Moon, drawn by his fellow Jesuit, the physicist Francesco Maria Grimaldi, with names still used today. Riccioli gives craters to astronomers on both sides, Copernicus, Kepler, and Aristarchus among them, and gives Grimaldi and himself craters side by side.

Riccioli’s system: the Earth stands still at the center, the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn circle it, and Mercury, Venus, and Mars circle the Sun, carried along with it Earth Sun Mercury Venus Mars Jupiter Saturn Simplified, not to scale
Drag the slider to move through two years. The Earth stands still. The Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn circle it, and the Sun carries Mercury, Venus, and Mars along, each on Kepler’s ellipse around it. Riccioli moved Jupiter and Saturn in more involved ways than the plain circles shown here.

Revision of #5792 by Giovanni Battista Riccioli​·​#5812​·​Compare with #5802

The Earth stands still at the center. The Moon, the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn roughly circle it, and Mercury, Venus, and Mars go around the Sun on Kepler’s ellipses, so they fit Tycho’s measurements.

The state of the discussion

Riccioli revises Tycho’s system, and Riccioli’s system escapes Kepler’s eight minutes. With no pending criticisms, it’s rationally adoptable. Kepler’s Sun-centered system still has one: the missing shift of the stars.

Use arrow keys ← →, the Previous and Next buttons above, or the timeline below to move through the history.Swipe left or right, or use the Previous and Next buttons above or the timeline below, to move through the history.

Sources:

  • Riccioli, Almagestum novum (Bologna, 1651), part II, book 9, section 4
  • Flavia Marcacci and Paolo Bussotti, “How to use Kepler’s first and second laws in a geo-heliocentric system? Ask G.B. Riccioli”, Archive for History of Exact Sciences (2024)

Researched and written with the help of AI, from the sources named. AI can make mistakes. Veritula doesn’t claim perfect historical accuracy; the sources are there to check against.

The full discussion

Why Don’t We Feel the Earth Move?

Dennis Hackethal started this discussion 1 day ago.

Search​·​Activity

The ground feels still, and anyone can see the Sun circle us. Overturning that took two thousand years. It revealed that we ride a planet that spins, circles the Sun, and sweeps around the Milky Way at 230 kilometers a second.


Discussions can branch out indefinitely. You may need to scroll sideways.
The discussion as it was in 1651. Chronicle discussions are read-only. Jump to the present
Aristarchus of Samos’s avatar
Aristarchus of SamosHistorical profile​·​#5808​·​1609​·​AI-assisted
3rd of 3 versions​·​revised by Johannes KeplerHistorical profile

The Earth is a planet. It spins once a day and goes around the Sun once a year, as the other planets do. Mars moves on an ellipse, a stretched circle, with the Sun at one of the ellipse’s two foci, so that the line from the Sun to the planet sweeps out equal areas in equal times, and the other planets, I expect, move the same way.

Criticized1
Aristarchus of Samos’s avatar
Aristarchus of SamosHistorical profile​·​#5790​·​about 270 BCE​·​AI-assisted

If the Earth circled the Sun, we would see the stars from different places over the year, so they would seem to shift back and forth. They don’t.

Criticism of #5808
Aristarchus of Samos’s avatar
Aristarchus of SamosHistorical profile​·​#5791​·​about 270 BCE​·​AI-assisted

The stars are so far away that, next to their distance, the Earth’s orbit is like a point. Their shift is far too small to see.

Criticism of #5790Criticized1
Tycho Brahe’s avatar
Tycho BraheHistorical profile​·​#5803​·​1588​·​AI-assisted

Even my instruments, precise to a minute of arc, show no shift of the stars. So they would have to be at least 700 times farther from the Sun than Saturn is, leaving an absurd empty gap in between.

Criticism of #5791
Claudius Ptolemy’s avatar
Claudius PtolemyHistorical profile​·​#5795​·​about 150 CE​·​AI-assisted

If the Earth spun once a day from west to east, it would outrun everything not standing on it. Clouds, birds, and anything thrown would always seem to drift westward, and we would never see them move east.

Criticism of #5808Criticized1
Claudius Ptolemy’s avatar
Claudius PtolemyHistorical profile​·​#5796​·​about 150 CE​·​AI-assisted

The air might turn with the Earth and carry the clouds and the birds along, so they wouldn’t be left behind.

Criticism of #5795
Claudius Ptolemy’s avatar
Claudius PtolemyHistorical profile​·​#5797​·​about 150 CE​·​AI-assisted

If the air carried them along, they would never seem to move at all. But we see them move in every direction.

Criticism of #5796Criticized1
Nicolaus Copernicus’s avatar
Nicolaus CopernicusHistorical profile​·​#5800​·​1543​·​AI-assisted

The air near the Earth turns with it and carries the clouds along, and whatever rises or falls through the air turns with the Earth too, on top of its own motion. So we see them move every which way, as they would on a motionless Earth.

Criticism of #5797
Tycho Brahe’s avatar
Tycho BraheHistorical profile​·​#5804​·​1588​·​AI-assisted

If the Earth spun from west to east, a cannonball fired eastward would fly a different distance than one fired westward with the same force. I’m sure both would fly equally far, so the Earth doesn’t spin.

Criticism of #5808Criticized1
Galileo Galilei’s avatar
Galileo GalileiHistorical profile​·​#5811​·​1632​·​AI-assisted

Everything on the Earth shares its motion, just as everything on a smoothly sailing ship shares the ship’s. A stone dropped from the top of the mast lands at its foot, and a cannonball keeps the Earth’s motion too, so it flies as far to the east as to the west. Equal distances show nothing about whether the Earth spins.

Criticism of #5804
Galileo Galilei’s avatar
Galileo GalileiHistorical profile​·​#5810​·​1610​·​AI-assisted

Jupiter carries four moons around with it as it moves. So a moving Earth can keep its Moon, too.

Claudius Ptolemy’s avatar
Claudius PtolemyHistorical profile​·​#5812​·​1651​·​AI-assisted

The Earth stands still at the center. The Moon, the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn roughly circle it, and Mercury, Venus, and Mars go around the Sun on Kepler’s ellipses, so they fit Tycho’s measurements.

  • Rationally adoptable.
  • Not rationally adoptable.
  • Older versions with pending criticisms.
  • Ideas are blue, criticisms red, comments small and gray.
  • Hover over ideas to expand them.
  • Click on ideas to jump to their place in the discussion.