Fabric of Reality Book Club

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Erik Orrje’s avatar
Erik Orrje, about 2 months ago·#2031

How do you think of "problems" for genes?

Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar
Dirk Meulenbelt, about 2 months ago·#2149

I don't think a gene has problems. It does not have ideas.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, about 2 months ago·#2151

A gene doesn’t have problems in any conscious sense, but it always faces the problem of how to spread through the population at the expense of its rivals.

Maybe that answers your question, Erik.

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Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar
Dirk Meulenbelt, about 2 months ago·#2152

How could we integrate that vision with Popper's definition (paraphrased): a tension, inconsistency, or unmet explanatory demand that arises when a theory clashes with observations, background assumptions, or rival theories, thereby calling for conjectural solutions and critical tests.

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, about 2 months ago·#2153

The rival theories and clashes sound like competition between genes – or more precisely, between the theories those genes embody.

Basically, genes contain guesses (in a non-subjective sense) for how to spread through the population at the expense of their rivals. Those guesses are met with selection pressure and competition.

Dirk Meulenbelt’s avatar
Dirk Meulenbelt, about 2 months ago·#2154

Dirk approves of your comment.

Erik Orrje’s avatar
Erik Orrje, about 2 months ago·#2190

Yeah, thanks! Are ideas also guesses of how to survive in the mind and across substrates, or is there more to ideas?

Dennis Hackethal’s avatar
Dennis Hackethal, about 2 months ago·#2200

In the neo-Darwinian view, any replicator’s primary ‘concern’ is how to spread through the population at the expense of its rivals. This view is what Dawkins (IIRC) calls the gene’s eye view, and it applies to ideas as much as it does to genes. Any adaptation of any replicator is primarily in service of this concern.

So I think the answer to your question, “Are ideas also guesses of how to survive in the mind and across substrates …?”, is ‘yes’.

Battle tested
Benjamin Davies’s avatar
Benjamin Davies, 2 days ago·#3279

… any replicator’s primary ‘concern’ is how to spread through the population at the expense of its rivals.

Why “at the expense of its rivals”? Isn’t the concern to spread at all, regardless of the outcome of rivals?

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

Rivalry means competition, win/lose outcomes. If one replicator spreads, it will be at the expense of its rivals (if any), eg taking up niches that rivals would otherwise have taken up.

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Dennis Hackethal’s avatar

I’m using standard neo-Darwinian phrasing. Compare, for example, BoI chapter 4:

The most general way of stating the central assertion of the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution is that a population of replicators subject to variation (for instance by imperfect copying) will be taken over by those variants that are better than their rivals at causing themselves to be replicated.

And, same chapter:

[T]he knowledge embodied in genes is knowledge of how to get themselves replicated at the expense of their rivals.

See also several instances in chapter 15 in the context of meme evolution.

Richard Dawkins’ The Selfish Gene has a ton on rivals (alleles), too, for example (chapter 2):

Ways of increasing stability and of decreasing rivals’ stability became more elaborate and more efficient. Some of them may even have ‘discovered’ how to break up molecules of rival varieties chemically, and to use the building blocks so released for making their own copies.

Criticism of #3279