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This sounds like a version of #2195, see criticism #2198.

#5093​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 9 days ago​·​Criticism

Then the idea ‘I could either address that pending criticism or, if I fail to do that, look into all the other pending criticisms’ would have no pending criticisms.

#5092​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 9 days ago​·​Criticism

If other criteria for the selection of conjectures were built into the system, such as in the genes of a human, the growth of knowledge would be bounded to only conjectures meeting those criteria, even if the variation/conjecture aspect of the process were proceeding via a random process with no built-in knowledge. Fixed criteria means bounded knowledge, means no universality. So for unbounded progress (universality), the criteria must also be varied. But how are they criticized? What criteria for their selection can there be to avoid a regress, except survival?

#5091​·​Tyler MillsOP, 9 days ago

All subsequent knowledge in the system will be descended from the initial knowledge. So all knowledge in a knowledge-growing system must be either created by or comprised of replicators.

#5090​·​Tyler MillsOP, 9 days ago

Knowledge growth (such as in genes in the biosphere, or in a person) can only proceed by conjecture and criticism -- variation and selection. In a system which can create knowledge, but has not yet, there are no modes of substantive criticism available, since that would itself require knowledge. So how can the system create knowledge at all? Because although substantive criticism is not yet possible, the crudest form of full-on refutation is: the destruction of the information medium on which a conjecture is based, i.e., death. Death is the only "undesigned" refutation. So any initial knowledge created in an otherwise empty knowledge-creating system can only be that relating to how to avoid death in the local environment. This is the knowledge which defines replicators.

#5089​·​Tyler MillsOP, 9 days ago​·​Criticized1

Is rejecting an idea equivalent to adopting it's negation?

#5088​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 10 days ago

But what if the idea that you should be suspicious of a large volume of criticism in a short time has pending criticism itself?

#5087​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 10 days ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

An inability to improve on the criticized aspect of a system is not a refutation of that criticism.

#5086​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 10 days ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

This approach does not specify how long you should spend coming up with criticisms before adopting it, therefore it cannot be put into action as stated. The delay must be nonzero otherwise, the fresh idea "you should ignore criticisms" would nullify the system.

#5085​·​Sam Cymbaluk, 10 days ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

Now also available on PhilPapers: https://philpapers.org/archive/HACTSO-6.pdf

#5084​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 11 days ago

I’ve formalized some of these ideas in my first paper, ‘The Structure of Rational Thought’.

https://www.academia.edu/170297518/The_Structure_of_Rational_Thought

#5083​·​Dennis HackethalOP, 15 days ago

And again, not convinced any external world or feedback is required for open-endedness (per Deutsch). It might merely be very helpful.

Yes, and perhaps this helpfulness is underestimated? One guess is therefore that the plateaus that have occurred is due to the difficulty of escaping the hardware case of the computer. Our vehicles (bodies) allow for much easier physical instantiation of replicators, compared to replicators inside computers.

#5082​·​Erik Orrje, 18 days ago​·​Criticism

There must be a minimum amount of available memory needed for a program to be a person. What can the program not do, below that minimum? What is that minimum M bits being used for that cannot be done with M-1 bits?

#5081​·​Tyler Mills, 23 days ago

I usually get conspiracy vibes from anti-fluoride sources, but I haven’t looked into it much.

#5080​·​Dennis Hackethal, 26 days ago

Gemini's response to that tweet: "The text uses legitimate biochemical concepts—like the fact that fluoride is a potent halogen that hardens minerals and can be toxic in high doses—to build a narrative based on skewed history. It fabricates a geological explanation for Hereford, Texas, to erase the very thing that actually protected the town's teeth: naturally occurring fluoride."

#5079​·​Tyler Mills, 26 days ago​·​Criticism

Is a quale a sequence of information states? Is this true of any given computation? Does the quale "care" if the states are computed afresh or read from memory?

#5077​·​Tyler MillsOP, about 1 month ago

Assuming qualia are classical, there is nothing stopping every step in the computation comprising them from being measured, like any computation. Then, nothing is stopping that recording/program from being rerun.

#5075​·​Tyler MillsOP revised about 1 month ago​·​Original #5074​·​Criticism

Any physical process can be simulated to arbitrary precision. A simulation is a program, and nothing is stopping any given program from being rerun.

#5074​·​Tyler MillsOP, about 1 month ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

But the mind has finite memory as well, and doesn't stop showing novelty. I was going to say it doesn't plateau in complexity, but actually I guess there is a ceiling... It's just that new and better ideas make better use of the finite resources; they aren't just more complex.

Not sure what you mean by the soup being more open to the world, or allowing for "more" open-ended evolution. Unless you mean the quantity. I think evolution is either open- or closed-ended, as a binary. And again, not convinced any external world or feedback is required for open-endedness (per Deutsch). It might merely be very helpful.

#5073​·​Tyler Mills, about 1 month ago​·​CriticismCriticized1

Indeed. And this is one of the reasons the cynics are wrong. They think true ideas couldn’t be improved further. This worries them because they want unbounded progress. So they conclude our ideas can never be 100% true. Not only is that motivated reasoning but, as you’ve just said, true ideas can still be improved anyway.

#5072​·​Dennis Hackethal, about 1 month ago

I also picture a primordial soup often. Maybe including these autonomous regions or layers I'm grasping at. Soups and "Turing gases" have been programmed and so far always plateau in complexity, even with no predefined criterion, so there's something else going on.

Couldn't it be that there still are limitations of the simulated environment that act as selection criteria? Such as the available memory. The "soup" definitely seems more open to the entire world, which presumably would allow for more open ended evolution (even though that still took a couple of billion years after universality was achieved).

#5071​·​Erik Orrje, about 1 month ago​·​Criticism

Great, that makes sense. True statements should ofc be criticisable depending on the problem situation.

#5070​·​Erik Orrje, about 1 month ago

This sounds true but does it add anything new to saying that "AGI is an attempt to program Darwins theory of evolution"? 🤔

#5069​·​Erik Orrje revised about 1 month ago​·​Original #5056​·​CriticismCriticized1

Like, the criticism flag isn’t just for factual errors, if that’s what you mean.

#5068​·​Dennis Hackethal, about 1 month ago