Activity Feed

  Dennis Hackethal criticized idea #3825.

The Fountainhead is on my list. Listened to ‘The Simplest Thing in the World’. One message seems to be that one's creativity will continuously resist attempts to coerce it into doing something it doesn't want. A will of its own. I feel such resistance acutely at this current job, more so but no differently than during previous jobs and assignments, as we all have. But what is the import of the story to the present debate? My creative muse will continue fighting me so long as I'm trying to steer it towards other things? I have no doubt. The questions here are over what is practical, secure and strategic, all largely in the financial sense--or so I think. Where does one draw the line between passion and security? Maybe there is no general-purpose explanation. I will continue reflecting.

#3825·Tyler MillsOP, 2 days ago

The questions here are over what is practical, secure and strategic, all largely in the financial sense--or so I think.

There’s nothing practical about working a job you hate. There’s nothing practical about fighting yourself.

Where does one draw the line between passion and security?

There’s no security in not pursuing your passion, and there’s no need to make this kind of tradeoff anyway.

  Tyler Mills commented on idea #3746.

Read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. That should give you some fuel to move forward.

If that’s too long, watch ‘The Simplest Thing in the World’

#3746·Dennis Hackethal, 5 days ago

The Fountainhead is on my list. Listened to ‘The Simplest Thing in the World’. One message seems to be that one's creativity will continuously resist attempts to coerce it into doing something it doesn't want. A will of its own. I feel such resistance acutely at this current job, more so but no differently than during previous jobs and assignments, as we all have. But what is the import of the story to the present debate? My creative muse will continue fighting me so long as I'm trying to steer it towards other things? I have no doubt. The questions here are over what is practical, secure and strategic, all largely in the financial sense--or so I think. Where does one draw the line between passion and security? Maybe there is no general-purpose explanation. I will continue reflecting.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #3763.

You’re young. Now’s the time to take (educated, calculated) risks. Even if quitting turns out to be a mistake, you have all the time in the world to correct the mistake and recover. You can always find some day job somewhere. But you may not always be able to pursue your passion.

#3763·Dennis Hackethal, 4 days ago

I find this point irrefutable, aside from the risk being educated or calculated... Maybe it is those things...
What I would ultimately love to do is pivot into AGI research as a career, but when is pursuing that educated risk-taking vs fantasy?

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #3762.

You describe your job as “excruciating”. That’s reason to quit.

#3762·Dennis Hackethal, 4 days ago

This brings us back to our conversation about discipline. Maybe we can recapitulate here, or maybe best done elsewhere. Lots of things are excruciating, like homework and exams; should I not have done them? Exercise as well. There seem to be problems which can only be solved by maintaining other problems..!
Should suffering be avoided? Not if it's useful..? I'm still conflicted about this.

  Tyler Mills criticized idea #3774.

You could spend some time in a cheap country.

#3774·Dirk Meulenbelt, 4 days ago

Good thought, in general. But the dislocation would take significant time and resources itself. The current lease arrangement also cannot be exited without a heavy fee. I also moved recently, I would love to not do that again for some time.

  Tyler Mills criticized idea #3820.

A related idea is to become more disciplined with my time, getting more out of the off days.

#3820·Tyler MillsOP, 2 days ago

So far this has proven ineffective, though a skill which could be improved. However, questions remain for me over whether self-disciplining is good, in general, and where to draw the line between coercion and healthy structure.

  Tyler Mills commented on criticism #3782.

Consider your current balance of working and research.

Could you cut other activities, keep the job, and increase focus on research?

#3782·Zakery Mizell, 3 days ago

A related idea is to become more disciplined with my time, getting more out of the off days.

  Tyler Mills addressed criticism #3782.

Consider your current balance of working and research.

Could you cut other activities, keep the job, and increase focus on research?

#3782·Zakery Mizell, 3 days ago

I think I've compressed other activities as much as possible. With the current job, I don't think I can increase focus on research any further. The concerns are over the tradeoffs of leaving the day job (finances, impact to employability, etc.).

  Tyler Mills commented on criticism #3783.

How much time and energy do you really have for research while working? 1hr daily? 2 hours daily? 4 hours daily?

Leaving your job allows for the possibility of consistent high quality research daily.

#3783·Zakery Mizell, 3 days ago

Yes, very little time and energy for research while working, a handful of hours a week. The intermittence carries its own cost, I also find.

  Dennis Hackethal revised criticism #3813.

It does sound like Deutsch thinks all these different criteria boil down to being about hard vs easy to vary, see #3807.

It does sound like Deutsch thinks all these different criteria boil down to being about hard vs easy to vary, see #3814.

  Dennis Hackethal revised criticism #3807.

Not according to Deutsch. He says hard to vary is epistemologically fundamental, that all progress is based on it. For example, he phrases testability in terms of hard to vary (BoI chapter 1):

When a formerly good explanation has been falsified by new observations, it is no longer a good explanation, because the problem has expanded to include those observations. Thus the standard scientific methodology of dropping theories when refuted by experiment is implied by the requirement for good explanations.

For Deutsch, hard to vary is the key mode of criticism, not just one of many.

Not according to Deutsch. He says hard to vary is epistemologically fundamental, that all progress is based on it. For example, he phrases testability in terms of hard to vary (BoI chapter 1):

When a formerly good explanation has been falsified by new observations, it is no longer a good explanation, because the problem has expanded to include those observations. Thus the standard scientific methodology of dropping theories when refuted by experiment is implied by the requirement for good explanations.

He also says that “good explanations [are] essential to science…” (thanks @tom-nassis for finding this quote). Recall that a good explanation is one that is hard to vary.

For Deutsch, hard to vary is the key mode of criticism, not just one of many.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3811.

Liberty responded (1:39:46) that that quote is misleading because it makes it sound like hard to vary is the only criterion people use when making decisions, which can’t be true. There are other criteria, like “consistency with data”, “logical consistency”, “fitting in with existing theories”, etc.

#3811·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

It does sound like Deutsch thinks all these different criteria boil down to being about hard vs easy to vary, see #3807.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3811.

Liberty responded (1:39:46) that that quote is misleading because it makes it sound like hard to vary is the only criterion people use when making decisions, which can’t be true. There are other criteria, like “consistency with data”, “logical consistency”, “fitting in with existing theories”, etc.

#3811·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

The quote may be false, but I don’t see how it’s misleading. I’m not quoting Deutsch in isolation or cherry-picking information or anything like that.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3809.

I’m not saying hard to vary is a decision-making method. I’m saying it’s an integral part of Deutsch’s decision-making method. As I write in my article:

He argues that “we should choose between [explanations] according to how good they are…: how hard to vary.”

#3809·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

Liberty responded (1:39:46) that that quote is misleading because it makes it sound like hard to vary is the only criterion people use when making decisions, which can’t be true. There are other criteria, like “consistency with data”, “logical consistency”, “fitting in with existing theories”, etc.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3808.

Liberty said (at 1:38:39) hard to vary isn’t a method of decision-making. It’s a factor people take into account when they make decisions, but decision-making itself is a creative process.

#3808·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

I’m fine allowing user input to sidestep the creativity problem, see #3802.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3808.

Liberty said (at 1:38:39) hard to vary isn’t a method of decision-making. It’s a factor people take into account when they make decisions, but decision-making itself is a creative process.

#3808·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

I’m not saying hard to vary is a decision-making method. I’m saying it’s an integral part of Deutsch’s decision-making method. As I write in my article:

He argues that “we should choose between [explanations] according to how good they are…: how hard to vary.”

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3707.

Deutsch contradicts his yardstick for understanding a computational task. He says that you haven’t understood a computational task if you can’t program it. His method of decision-making based on finding good explanations is a computational task. He can’t program it, so he hasn’t understood it.

#3707·Dennis HackethalOP, 6 days ago

Liberty said (at 1:38:39) hard to vary isn’t a method of decision-making. It’s a factor people take into account when they make decisions, but decision-making itself is a creative process.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3806.

fundamental

@zelalem-mekonnen suggested during a space (37:36) that hard to vary is just one mode of criticism.

#3806·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

Not according to Deutsch. He says hard to vary is epistemologically fundamental, that all progress is based on it. For example, he phrases testability in terms of hard to vary (BoI chapter 1):

When a formerly good explanation has been falsified by new observations, it is no longer a good explanation, because the problem has expanded to include those observations. Thus the standard scientific methodology of dropping theories when refuted by experiment is implied by the requirement for good explanations.

For Deutsch, hard to vary is the key mode of criticism, not just one of many.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3719.

From my article:

[I]sn’t the difficulty of changing an explanation at least partly a property not of the explanation itself but of whoever is trying to change it? If I’m having difficulty changing it, maybe that’s because I lack imagination. Or maybe I’m just new to that field and an expert could easily change it. In which case the difficulty of changing an explanation is, again, not an objective property of that explanation but a subjective property of its critics. How could subjective properties be epistemologically fundamental?

#3719·Dennis HackethalOP revised 6 days ago

fundamental

@zelalem-mekonnen suggested during a space (37:36) that hard to vary is just one mode of criticism.

  Dennis Hackethal revised criticism #3790.

But calling a theory ‘good’ sounds like an endorsement. Deutsch also writes (BoI chapter 10) that a “superb” theory is “exceedingly hard to vary”. Ultimately we’d have to ask him, but for now I think it’s fair to conclude that he means ‘hard to vary’ as an endorsement.

But calling a theory ‘good’ sounds like an endorsement. Deutsch also writes (BoI chapter 10) that a “superb” theory is “exceedingly hard to vary”. Ultimately we’d have to ask him, but for now, given the strength and positivity of those terms, I think it’s fair to conclude that he means ‘hard to vary’ as an endorsement.

  Dennis Hackethal revised criticism #3706.

Even if we allow creative user input, eg a score for the quality of an explanation, we run into all kinds of open questions, such as what upper and lower limits to use for the score, and unexpected behavior, such as criticisms pushing an explanations score beyond those limits.

Even if we allow creative user input, eg a score for the quality of an explanation, we run into all kinds of open questions, such as what upper and lower limits to use for the score, and unexpected behavior, such as criticisms pushing an explanation’s score beyond those limits.

  Dirk Meulenbelt addressed criticism #3795.

During a space, starting at around 15:00, @dirk-meulenbelt suggested that Veritula suffers from underspecification: it does not specify which kinds of criticisms users can submit. But there are lots, like Occam’s razor, hard to vary, lack of testability, etc.

Since I criticize Deutsch’s ‘hard to vary’ criterion for being underspecified, Veritula shouldn’t be underspecified either.

(Correct me if I misunderstood you here, @dirk-meulenbelt.)

#3795·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

Huh, no. I said you found a level where the epistemology is unproblematic to specify and turned that into Veritula. I said the opposite. You misunderstood me.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3797.

@dirk-meulenbelt suggested in a space (at 21:30) that a bunch of epistemology is underspecified. There are many epistemological concepts (like criterion of democracy, falsifiability, etc.) that we don’t know enough about to express in code.

#3797·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

As I write in my article:

… Popper did formalize/specify much of his epistemology, such as the notions of empirical content and degrees of falsifiability. So why couldn’t Deutsch formalize the steps for finding the quality of a given explanation?

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3797.

@dirk-meulenbelt suggested in a space (at 21:30) that a bunch of epistemology is underspecified. There are many epistemological concepts (like criterion of democracy, falsifiability, etc.) that we don’t know enough about to express in code.

#3797·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

Deutsch’s yardstick applies to computational tasks. It’s not meant for other things. It’s not clear to me that the criterion of democracy is a computational task.

  Dennis Hackethal addressed criticism #3797.

@dirk-meulenbelt suggested in a space (at 21:30) that a bunch of epistemology is underspecified. There are many epistemological concepts (like criterion of democracy, falsifiability, etc.) that we don’t know enough about to express in code.

#3797·Dennis HackethalOP, 3 days ago

Yes, many ideas fail Deutsch’s yardstick. But so what? That doesn’t make things better.